Just another cog in the machine
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3. dogfish commented 11 years ago
world wide unions would be needed in this multi-national era. a local union is helpless when they can move the whole company to an other county. the local union has no coercive power, when the company can say that, if you want more we will leave, you all will be unemployed.
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4. bigredman commented 11 years ago
If you don't like your job, then fuck off.
The world doesn't owe you a living.
A company boss has no obligation to provide you with employment.
He offers you a job to make himself money.
And you take it because you need money.
If you don't like his terms, then fuck off.
Oh, and when you're sitting on your own and bemoaning the fact that you have no money, do yourself a favour and read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand.
After that, go and try to start up your own business, find the cash, find the immense amount of time, energy and resources required to run a business. I'll bet a penny to a pinch of shit that you won't hack it, because it's just too damn difficult.
Why work hard when moaning is just so much easier?
The world doesn't owe you a living.
A company boss has no obligation to provide you with employment.
He offers you a job to make himself money.
And you take it because you need money.
If you don't like his terms, then fuck off.
Oh, and when you're sitting on your own and bemoaning the fact that you have no money, do yourself a favour and read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand.
After that, go and try to start up your own business, find the cash, find the immense amount of time, energy and resources required to run a business. I'll bet a penny to a pinch of shit that you won't hack it, because it's just too damn difficult.
Why work hard when moaning is just so much easier?
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7. h8isgr8 commented 11 years ago
I'm a public sector union member that once did the exact same job in the private sector.
Turnover is far less now, but not because my peers are harder working or do their job any better. The same people who would have lost their job in short order in the private sector are now protected by union rules. In the past 7 years I've heard of 4 union members getting fired. In the private sector there were 4 firings every couple of weeks.
Morale is not better now that I'm in the union. I would argue it's just as bad or worse. There is no incentive to work hard, but if you are a hard worker that is what you will always do, regardless of the frustration that comes from knowing that the guy sleeping half his shift will always make the same amount of money as you.
I don't think there's a solution to union vs non-union work environments. The non-union workers will always be taken advantage of and the union workers will always take advantage of their position.
Turnover is far less now, but not because my peers are harder working or do their job any better. The same people who would have lost their job in short order in the private sector are now protected by union rules. In the past 7 years I've heard of 4 union members getting fired. In the private sector there were 4 firings every couple of weeks.
Morale is not better now that I'm in the union. I would argue it's just as bad or worse. There is no incentive to work hard, but if you are a hard worker that is what you will always do, regardless of the frustration that comes from knowing that the guy sleeping half his shift will always make the same amount of money as you.
I don't think there's a solution to union vs non-union work environments. The non-union workers will always be taken advantage of and the union workers will always take advantage of their position.
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9. pauldmixer commented 11 years ago
Funny. I saw the thumbnail of the video and when I watched the paper spitting out I thought "yep, he's a member of a union..." This is pure rubbish; a complete 180 degree distortion of the truth.
I have worked for 3 different unions in 2 trades. It is my experience, both first and second hand, that unions hold you back because excelling is looked down upon because you make others look bad, product costs are driven up (due to union politicians skimming off the top and hiring about 20-30% more labor than is required), and in general will absolutely suck the life out of you and the business you work for.
And FWIW, I make 2-3 times now what my union friends make doing the same thing. Why? Because excelling gets me promoted, I can negotiate my own contracts and wages, and I'm free to be the best I can be without being reduced to the lowest common denominator.
Unions had their place in the States 100-60 years ago, and may still have a place in 2nd and 3rd world countries. But they are long overdue to take a hike in the US.
I have worked for 3 different unions in 2 trades. It is my experience, both first and second hand, that unions hold you back because excelling is looked down upon because you make others look bad, product costs are driven up (due to union politicians skimming off the top and hiring about 20-30% more labor than is required), and in general will absolutely suck the life out of you and the business you work for.
And FWIW, I make 2-3 times now what my union friends make doing the same thing. Why? Because excelling gets me promoted, I can negotiate my own contracts and wages, and I'm free to be the best I can be without being reduced to the lowest common denominator.
Unions had their place in the States 100-60 years ago, and may still have a place in 2nd and 3rd world countries. But they are long overdue to take a hike in the US.
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10. dickheadred commented 11 years ago
A lot of guys have their head so far up their ass that they don't see or realize that management and the union are flip sides of the same coin.
Management wants maximum output for minimum rewards while the union wants maximum rewards for the minimum output ... but it's not all about the money !! You can thank unions for promoting safety, health benefits, retirement plans.
What the hell has your management done for you independently .. NADA !!!
Management wants maximum output for minimum rewards while the union wants maximum rewards for the minimum output ... but it's not all about the money !! You can thank unions for promoting safety, health benefits, retirement plans.
What the hell has your management done for you independently .. NADA !!!
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13. Bergsten commented 11 years ago
#10 I agree that management and the union are flip sides but I don't agree they are the same coin. At least management doesn't screw the people who don't work for them.
If its not all about the money then why were union dues deducted automatically from mypaycheck(not by my choice, I was told its the law) while I worked in a union shop as a non-union employee?
If its not all about the money then why were union dues deducted automatically from mypaycheck(not by my choice, I was told its the law) while I worked in a union shop as a non-union employee?
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14. dickheadred commented 11 years ago
#13 How would you feel working in a shop with the fella beside you making $10 bucks an hour more than you for the same work He wearing safety boots and safety glasses paid by the company while you were left to your own devices. The same guy getting basic health and dental benefits and contributing to a pension plan. C'mon ...you get the same benefits as the union guy but you don't want to pay your share ?.... do picket duty ?.. be serious.
The reason all of the manufacturing and our better jobs have moved to China is because union support dropped. No shit!! management is going to look for beggars wages offshore and screw you jack!!
Most of you guys have no idea. Back in the 50's and 60's work was so plentiful that if you didn't like your job you could quit it in the morning and have a new one in the afternoon. When I see anti union rhetoric like this I think.. what a bunch of dumb assed uneducated people, giving opinions on things they have never studied.
The reason all of the manufacturing and our better jobs have moved to China is because union support dropped. No shit!! management is going to look for beggars wages offshore and screw you jack!!
Most of you guys have no idea. Back in the 50's and 60's work was so plentiful that if you didn't like your job you could quit it in the morning and have a new one in the afternoon. When I see anti union rhetoric like this I think.. what a bunch of dumb assed uneducated people, giving opinions on things they have never studied.
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15. Tehrasha commented 11 years ago
#14 What I saw was a lot of workers who did the same 'job' as I did, getting paid more money, while at the same time doing considerably less and/or poorer quality work. Any additional effort on my part in performing my job meant nothing, and if layoffs came around, I would be the first out the door. All thanks to union work ethic and the seniority ladder.
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16. pauldmixer commented 11 years ago
What most union members fail to realize is the "fairness" that their Stu's claim to promote only means that you get paid only what the least capable person on your "team" is worth. Lowest common denominator. How is that fair?
Fairness is earning a wage that you are worth, regardless of age, sex, color of skin, or whatever.
Generally speaking, my union friends had an attitude of banding together, "screwing the man" and getting even; Makes sense: screw the guy that gave you a job... So, maybe those cool-aid drinking Sheeple's deserve to be reduced to the lowest common denominator...
Fairness is earning a wage that you are worth, regardless of age, sex, color of skin, or whatever.
Generally speaking, my union friends had an attitude of banding together, "screwing the man" and getting even; Makes sense: screw the guy that gave you a job... So, maybe those cool-aid drinking Sheeple's deserve to be reduced to the lowest common denominator...
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17. snotraddict commented 11 years ago
I agree with several that have said unions and employers are the same thing. Employers (some) want to F you and the unions just want your money for political power, you are a pawn stuck in the middle.
Government jobs should not be unionized, I don't think it's right that trash, water, electric, IE necessities of common life, should be controlled by someone who can go on strike leaving you stuck without.
The only union I respect is UPS, they negotiate for good wages and benefits, but at the same time there are strong production standards insuring the company gets what they're paying for. Nothing wrong with wanting a good wage and benefits, but often times unions fight to keep the dead wood in the ranks.
In the end unions have lost a lot of respect earned early on by not holding their members accountable to help keep the company profitable and also as we've seen lately with bankrupt cities, they don't care if they bankrupt the citizens they are supposed to serve. A holes.
Government jobs should not be unionized, I don't think it's right that trash, water, electric, IE necessities of common life, should be controlled by someone who can go on strike leaving you stuck without.
The only union I respect is UPS, they negotiate for good wages and benefits, but at the same time there are strong production standards insuring the company gets what they're paying for. Nothing wrong with wanting a good wage and benefits, but often times unions fight to keep the dead wood in the ranks.
In the end unions have lost a lot of respect earned early on by not holding their members accountable to help keep the company profitable and also as we've seen lately with bankrupt cities, they don't care if they bankrupt the citizens they are supposed to serve. A holes.
+27 1. Tehrasha commented 11 years ago