Porch Pirate almost gets Shot!

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Picture of thundersnow58 achievements

+3 1. thundersnow commented 1 year ago

Welcome to Murica! <3
Picture of seldomseen7743 achievements

+5 2. seldomseen77 commented 1 year ago

What a delightful country to live in!
Picture of cameramaster55 achievements

+3 3. cameramaster commented 1 year ago

Hey Ma!...got meself a new bike!
Picture of Austin42 achievements
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-6 4. Austin commented 1 year ago

And before the ‘a man has a right to defend his home’ crowd wakes up across the pond and starts the inevitable cheer of that thief got what is coming to him and the handgun is a power equalizer and the man had every right to protect his property and and and – basically in the service of the goodness and utility of the civilian possession and use of handguns in neighbourhoods I would ask them to consider the following:

Is a human life at worst, potentially life-long debilitating injuries from a bullet wound, or the chance that an errant bullet hits a bystander (or his or her property) worth the value of an Amazon package?

Is it?

It may feel good to see a thief shit himself at the sight of a gun, the gun itself was not a deterrent. It was produced after the fact and only hastened his departure. So the deterrent argument is bullocks for anyone but the thief who know knows the homeowner has a gun.

And if you try to argue that by the act of thievery a human has potentially given up his right to life (or limb) then you are remarkably primitive in your thinking.

Theft is frustrating and annoying etc and thieves should be punished to the full extent of the law but should civilians be able to deliver that potential punishment with a gun?

A claim could almost be certainly made with the seller that the delivery company failed and thus full restitution is probably possible. (I have had lost and presumably stolen packages replaced with a simple email complaint). That makes this an annoying inconvenience no?

What is the value of human life?
Picture of Judge-Jake52 achievements

+8 5. Judge-Jake commented 1 year ago

#4 Oh my oh my Jane Austin has started another novel is this Persuasion take 2 or Sense and Sensibility the later years. :D
Picture of Austin42 achievements

-2 6. Austin commented 1 year ago

#5. Judge-Jake ‘ Jane Austin has started another novel’

LOL. Well done JJ. ;-) Nice word play.

‘Sense and Sensibility’….. my point and motivation exactly. ;-) Not enough of it when it comes to the uniquely American reification of freedom and independence over all other inalienable rights via the possession and use of the gun.

I simply asked all to think about what it means when we point a gun at another human – especially over something simple like a delivery package. Too often this calculus and these consequences are ignored in favour of the thrill of deterrence and rush of adrenalin one gets by control and power over others that a gun enables.
Picture of huldu34 achievements

-1 7. huldu commented 1 year ago

The guy was just scaring him off and probably did a great job at doing that. There was no way he was going to shot an unarmed man, even on his property.
Picture of Austin42 achievements

-4 8. Austin commented 1 year ago

#7. huldu ‘There was no way he was going to shot an unarmed man, even on his property.

First, how can you be so certain about that? Of course he could have. If the thief had paused on the street and 'looked threatening'? Then stand your ground laws may apply.

This is the problem with untrained civilians and guns and adrenalin and the haze of conflict and the power that a gun imbues the holder in such situations. Guns do go off and people do get shot quite frequently in America and almost certainly for something as unthreatening as theft.

For the 1st six months in the US.

• Total Number of Incidents 22,541
• Number of Deaths1 5,568
• Number of Injuries1 10,167
• Number of Children (age 0-11)
Killed or Injured1 244
• Number of Teens (age 12-17)
Killed or Injured1 1,009
• Mass Shooting2 103
• Officer Involved Incident
Officer Shot or Killed2 104
• Officer Involved Incident
Subject-Suspect Shot or Killed2 883
• Home Invasion2 794
• Defensive Use2 634
• Unintentional Shooting2 656

1: Actual number of deaths and injuries 2: Number of INCIDENTS reported and verified
22,000 Annual Suicides not included on Daily Summary Ledger
Data Validated: May 23, 2018
Picture of huldu34 achievements

0 9. huldu commented 1 year ago

#8 Did he get shot? No he did not. Let's try be a bit more optimistic about the world today and not assume the worst case is always going to happen. Thank you for your understanding.
Picture of Judge-Jake52 achievements

0 10. Judge-Jake commented 1 year ago

#8 Jane look, your comments are very confusing, whats the number after all the bullet points? example Home invasion2 794?? I presume you mean 2794..Are you copy pasting?? cos that's a shootable offence round these parts.
After all is said and done, I think the bastard stealing the package deserves a bit of the blame here. I mean what are you suggesting? If I'm in my garden carrying a long handled brush and a ferret punch and some utter and complete bastard helps himself to a package on my porch, maybe it's an urgent part for my child's dialysis machine, that has come all the way from Japan. Should I not attempt to beat the crap out of my robber if he refuses to hand it over? For I'm pretty sure with enough blows especially if it's a hard bristle brush and a few savage lunges with the Ferret Punch, I'm fairly sure I could do as much damage as with a gun, or are you suggesting I should just wave my brush at him and shout "OOu you rotter2"?
Picture of snotraddict44 achievements

+1 11. snotraddict commented 1 year ago

#4 "Is a human life at worst, potentially life-long debilitating injuries from a bullet wound, or the chance that an errant bullet hits a bystander (or his or her property) worth the value of an Amazon package? "

If it's not your package, Yep. I grew up in the midwest, I was told by my parents, don't trespass, you could get shot. I didn't and never got shot. Amazing, huh.
Picture of Austin42 achievements

-4 12. Austin commented 1 year ago

#10. Judge-Jake This is disappointing. Really. I expected better from you. To avoid big words – your argument is lazy and laden with silly inferences.

I have never suggested that a person is not entitled to defend his or her home, life, liberty or property. Of course they are. The question I asked was about the value of a human life and or the infliction of permanent crippling damage to a thief and possible bystanders vis-à-vis losing your bog standard Amazon package to petty theft.

Yes, statistics from http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/ were cut and pasted. It was to support a point. This is obvious (i cited the bloody website) and supported by original text. Your whinge is frankly silly.

The urgent medical equipment delivery for your daughter scenario is an example of a particularity lame straw man argument. If you had such lifesaving kit sent from abroad and didn’t make it a ‘sign on delivery / confirmation’ order then you are a complete idiot. This is a critical item to a person’s survival, please leave it on the porch if I am not home?? Please. I expected better from you.

And lastly to equate chasing off an intruder or a thief with a brush or punch with the lethality of damage potential of a bullet or bullets, to both the recipient and perhaps bystanders and property (bullets go through bodies and can carry on for a good distance and even penetrate walls) again shows your lack of ratiocination when dreaming up your scenario.

Guns, specifically bullets, are not analogous to fists, cricket bats and even knives. The latter require human contact and proximity with the recipient, are limited to the recipient, and will have varying degrees of force and thus wounds / damage. I have never heard of someone's Ferret Punch discharging, missing the target, and killing an innocent bystander. Or a knife or a fist etc.

Guns are unique in that they don’t require even close proximity to the target – they are lethal from 0-40 meters. Hitting a target in the heat of an exchange is very difficult even for trained police officers. I will aim for the leg or arm to wound argument is bollocks and not how trained people are taught to shoot – always aim for the body ‘centre mass’. Only in films to people hit what they shoot at. One can’t control the force and thus damage of the bullet once it is fired. Assuming just one is fired. Often police fire 5, 6 and 7 bullets and not even know it. And the damage that handgun bullets cause is horrific. They enter small, tumble and pulverize and liquefy and destroy their way through bones, organs and flesh to exit quite large. Ask ANY ER doctor or surgeon. All would much rather treat a knife wound (or a whack from a brush) due to the traumatic and often permanent damage caused by bullets.

> I'm pretty sure with enough blows especially if it's a hard bristle brush and a few savage lunges with the Ferret Punch, I'm fairly sure I could do as much damage as with a gun.

No, no you can’t unless you get very lucky. This is just silly and you should know better.

So back to the question. Is the potential level of lethality and or permanent damage appropriate for the crime of simple theft? Everyone seems to skirt this question in favour of 'its my right'. Ok - just because you may or may not have a right to point a loaded gun at a person is it the right thing to do??

Americans have protections against cruel and unusual punishments - is this not such a case? Is the value of a package equal to that of human life and /or permanent suffering??

And #11. snotraddict [possible death and or permanently debilitating injuries worth the value of an Amazon package?]

>If it's not your package, Yep.

How delightfully Old Testament of you. Thank goodness current laws and modern society don’t agree with your primitive value system.
Picture of cretu22 achievements

+2 13. cretu commented 1 year ago

#12 I personally am not american, and i dont have a problem there. BUT do you hate the U.S.? You gotta realize not everyone in the states are like this lol